Wiimms Mario Kart Fun — Intermezzo

      SpyKid schrieb:

      Aber die Version wurde nicht ins Wiki gestellt, nur in den Discord-Server.
      Und damit gibt es dann wieder eine Strecke in CTGP, die nicht veröffentlicht wird. Ist ja noch schlimmer, denn editiert ist sie ja schon.

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      @MrBean35000vr
      Maybe you like to translate and read the posts beginning with #1694.
      * Wiimms Mario Kart Fun — Intermezzo
      It's about CTGP tester team and how the force authors to change the creative parts of their tracks. In my opinion this is a bad way.

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      Wiimm schrieb:

      @MrBean35000vr
      Maybe you like to translate and read the posts beginning with #1694.
      * Wiimms Mario Kart Fun — Intermezzo
      It's about CTGP tester team and how the force authors to change the creative parts of their tracks. In my opinion this is a bad way.
      Well, I will say that I am not really in charge of them. They are their own group and I take their suggestions for what tracks to add, I'm not involved with what goes into the selection process. I will say that track authors do not have to listen to the CTGP testers if they don't want to, there is no obligation to import any changes that they request. Sometimes I'm asked for my opinion on certain elements of a track by the testers, and I answer honestly, but in those cases I was always under the impression that a feature was up for debate in the first place (e.g. moving freezies on GCN Sherbet Land, I was asked whether or not I personally thought they should move, and I said that I didn't think so; but if that is not what the author wants, then my opinion doesn't matter).

      I assume the testers are requesting changes purely from a playability standpoint, they're more interested in what will be enjoyable to play rather than what the author originally intended. It's hard to say whether or not that's a good attitude to have; while it's true that authors put in a lot of work with their own vision of what a track should be, if nobody but them will enjoy it, is that a good thing? Equally, the CTGP testers should not assume that their concept of "fun", or even playability, is the same as everyone else's. It's a balancing act, and a tough one at that.

      At the end of the day, if an author doesn't want to make a change, they shouldn't have to. Similarly, they are, of course, welcome to forbid anyone else from making changes to their track for CTGP, (or indeed for any other distribution, I think), that they do not want. So I would recommend only taking the CTGP testers requests/suggestions as recommendations and not as requirements. I will be getting involved with the testing process again soon, and so I'll get to see properly just what is going on behind the scenes before long. In the meantime, I'll tell them to cool it down a bit and possibly not be so brash when making requests of authors.

      @MrBean35000vr
      Don't forget, CTGP is the dominant custom distribution. And especially for young people (e.g. 14 years old boy) it is an honor that CTGP includes a track. And here I see the abuse of the tester team. They don't accept the creators creativity and forces to change the characteristics for subjective reasons.

      Nightlife is a good example. First the wine glasses must be removed (and really, I don't see any reason for it). And in a second step, the author have to reduce objects. And with both steps, the original characteristics is gone.

      A demand to fix technical issues is absolute perfect. But to force changing the characteristics of tracks is bad.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      if an author doesn't want to make a change, they shouldn't have to.

      But they did change the track by themselves, and sometimes very fast without giving the authors a chance to react.

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      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      Sometimes I'm asked for my opinion on certain elements of a track by the testers, and I answer honestly, but in those cases I was always under the impression that a feature was up for debate in the first place (e.g. moving freezies on GCN Sherbet Land, I was asked whether or not I personally thought they should move, and I said that I didn't think so; but if that is not what the author wants, then my opinion doesn't matter).
      "up for debate" by whom? I certainly didnt ask whether the Freezies should or shouldnt move. In the original GCN Track Freezies also moved (but players had to bumb against them for them to move) and they make the end much more lively. Like what is the problem with them? I don't know of a single person in Wiimms C

      Your team (and yes it is your team and you are in charge of them since you decide who is in it) even complained about the slippery road on Sherbet Land. Like what the holy fuck? The track is supposed to be an ice track what do they expect!? In the end they want a GCN Sherbet Land without moving objects and normal road which makes the track easier than Luigis Circuit.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      I assume the testers are requesting changes purely from a playability standpoint
      First of they don't request updates they do them themself. And secondly they changes as Wiimm pointed out can be worse than the original and GCN Sherbet Land is another example for it.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      if nobody but them will enjoy it, is that a good thing?
      As GCN Sherbet Land in its unedited form is already in Wiimms Distribution with a permanent place AND gets played enough I would counter with the argument that enough people enjoy it. And I would be fine with nobody playing my tracks because I make them for myself and especially with ports I know what I can improve.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      At the end of the day, if an author doesn't want to make a change, they shouldn't have to. Similarly, they are, of course, welcome to forbid anyone else from making changes to their track for CTGP, (or indeed for any other distribution, I think), that they do not want.
      That is a really interesting point because your tester team already changed a few tracks without asking an author. I don't think that is your fault but you should tell them to suggest the changes in the Wiki and ask whether the author wants to update it, allows them to update it or if the author does not want that change.

      Another thing Wiimm already pointed out is that it seems weird that new tracks get high requirements to get into CTGPR but old tracks can be broken? People complained about the GCN Mushroom Bridge cannon because it does not look good but in Torrans old version it is similiar broken. It has a lot more improvements to Torrans version but still did not make it in. In Wiimms Distribution (for me atleast) it seems like everyone again agreed that my version was better and Torrans version was kicked out.

      And a last thing: A month or so ago I was asked whether I want to create staff ghosts for GCN Sherbet Land in CTGPR and I replied why it can't use the ones I released in .rkg format. I was told that it is not possible and I should redo them in the CTGPR Channel. Why is there no tool you can use to convert .rkg ghosts into your CTGPR ghost format? Also why does every track update gets new ghosts? If you hash the KCLs, the Objects and the Objects Routes and they are the same, then the Ghosts will work with a track update. Just think about it when I want to change a shader or the vertex colors of the course_model and release it, old ghosts would be invalid even though I only updated the visuals.

      Wiimm schrieb:

      @MrBean35000vr
      Don't forget, CTGP is the dominant custom distribution. And especially for young people (e.g. 14 years old boy) it is an honor that CTGP includes a track. And here I see the abuse of the tester team. They don't accept the creators creativity and forces to change the characteristics for subjective reasons.

      Nightlife is a good example. First the wine glasses must be removed (and really, I don't see any reason for it). And in a second step, the author have to reduce objects. And with both steps, the original characteristics is gone.

      A demand to fix technical issues is absolute perfect. But to force changing the characteristics of tracks is bad.


      But they did change the track by themselves, and sometimes very fast without giving the authors a chance to react.


      Now, I admit to being responsible for requesting the Nightlife alcohol changes, simply for the reason that we have young kids playing CTGP. It's actually fairly unbelievable how many times we've been emailed by parents, grandparents, etc. asking for a guide on how to install CTGP for their young (mostly 6 - 12 yr old) child. In that regard, my personal thoughts are that having alcohol references is not a good thing, and the leading bodies that make game ratings always explicitly mention alcohol references as a reason to increase a game's rating. The removal of other objects, I'm not sure about, I didn't ask for that and don't really know much about what went on.

      So, I think the main problem is that they are making unofficial updates without giving the author chance to fix things? We can put a stop to that.

      Tock schrieb:


      "up for debate" by whom? I certainly didnt ask whether the Freezies should or shouldnt move. In the original GCN Track Freezies also moved (but players had to bumb against them for them to move) and they make the end much more lively. Like what is the problem with them? I don't know of a single person in Wiimms C
      Your team (and yes it is your team and you are in charge of them since you decide who is in it) even complained about the slippery road on Sherbet Land. Like what the holy fuck? The track is supposed to be an ice track what do they expect!? In the end they want a GCN Sherbet Land without moving objects and normal road which makes the track easier than Luigis Circuit.


      Up for debate by you. They approached me like it was actually an option, as if they talked to you about it before. Or at the very least, that's what I assumed. It's fine, though, like I said my opinion doesn't matter if you want them to move. I assume people cared because it's not faithful to the original or something?
      Also, yeah, obviously (to us) complaining about slippery road on an ice track is silly, but these guys complain about anything. The reason for that is that they're such a diverse range of players that they all have massively differing opinions on what works, what doesn't, etc.. You'd better believe that leads to a lot of internal arguments, but the reason for it is to get a good representation of all sides of the community. It's not all casuals, and it's not all competitives, but the competitives tend to hate sliding around and going slow. Though if I'm being honest, there's no reason why the ice on GCN Sherbet Land shouldn't be ice. It's ice.

      Tock schrieb:


      First of they don't request updates they do them themself. And secondly they changes as Wiimm pointed out can be worse than the original and GCN Sherbet Land is another example for it.


      Yeah, I don't think they should be making unofficial updates like that without author permission or without talking to the author first. Except in super rare circumstances (e.g. a certain texture on updated Marble Towers was triggering trypophobia in people, thus needing an emergency fix), but GCN Sherbet Land clearly doesn't fall into that.

      Tock schrieb:


      As GCN Sherbet Land in its unedited form is already in Wiimms Distribution with a permanent place AND gets played enough I would counter with the argument that enough people enjoy it. And I would be fine with nobody playing my tracks because I make them for myself and especially with ports I know what I can improve.


      My quote was not specifically referring to GCN Sherbet Land, mind you. It's as I said, though, everyone has a different concept of fun, and it's basically impossible to please everyone. I don't see any reason why people wouldn't enjoy the new GCN Sherbet Land, personally, and yet people have found a way to not enjoy it, as you've seen. I need to get involved again as a moderator of those "fun" debates, I think.

      Tock schrieb:

      That is a really interesting point because your tester team already changed a few tracks without asking an author. I don't think that is your fault but you should tell them to suggest the changes in the Wiki and ask whether the author wants to update it, allows them to update it or if the author does not want that change.
      Another thing Wiimm already pointed out is that it seems weird that new tracks get high requirements to get into CTGPR but old tracks can be broken? People complained about the GCN Mushroom Bridge cannon because it does not look good but in Torrans old version it is similiar broken. It has a lot more improvements to Torrans version but still did not make it in. In Wiimms Distribution (for me atleast) it seems like everyone again agreed that my version was better and Torrans version was kicked out.


      Yes, so I'm learning, I hadn't been properly aware they'd been doing that. I knew there'd been some things, but nothing too major and nothing that I didn't think they hadn't checked with the track author. They should have checked. I'll try to make sure they do from here onwards.
      And yeah, the standards to get a track in are going up, because it's getting harder to find which tracks to remove now. Nostalgia glasses are considered in this, so older less functional tracks that people still enjoy playing do survive, even if they'd never make it in by modern standards. But one major reason that the pickiness has increased is because of the ghost system. Every time an update for a track is made, by design, it necessitates the need for a leaderboard reset. People spend hours, and hours, on time trials, aiming for a brilliant time, only for a minor change to come along and render their work useless. The argument for rejecting GCN Mushroom Bridge until the cannon is repaired, is simply from that perspective; if you made a hotfix after it got in to repair those problems, the leaderboards would be killed. So, we're trying to ensure that tracks are correct first time round to reduce the risk of that.

      Tock schrieb:

      And a last thing: A month or so ago I was asked whether I want to create staff ghosts for GCN Sherbet Land in CTGPR and I replied why it can't use the ones I released in .rkg format. I was told that it is not possible and I should redo them in the CTGPR Channel. Why is there no tool you can use to convert .rkg ghosts into your CTGPR ghost format? Also why does every track update gets new ghosts? If you hash the KCLs, the Objects and the Objects Routes and they are the same, then the Ghosts will work with a track update. Just think about it when I want to change a shader or the vertex colors of the course_model and release it, old ghosts would be invalid even though I only updated the visuals.


      Ghosts are required to made in CTGP-R because they have to be uploaded to our ghost server, which only accepts CTGP-R ghosts. There's a bunch of data appended to the ghost data for both security and identification purposes, by CTGP, and the server needs that stuff. As you rightly deduced, the ghost system works by hash, but it works by the hash of the whole uncompressed file, and the reason to do it like that is because, according to the rules of the competitive community, doing a professional time trial of a texture hacked (Nintendo) track is not acceptable. So we decided we'd simply just observe any change made to a file, no matter how small, and generate new leaderboards for it. This was back in the day when we were desperate to make a system that everyone would use, and while it worked, it does limit how we can detect minor, non-breaking changes, which leads to the update conundrum that I mentioned before.
      It IS possible to convert normal ghosts into CTGP-R ghosts but the process involved is annoying and requires running the ghost back on a Wii, on a modified CTGP, so it can fill in missing information that can't otherwise be falsified. Only me and Chadderz can do that, and updating CTGP has become so technically complicated that adding doing that process on to everything else that has to be done would be one step too far, so I appreciate it if staff ghosts can be made in the CTGP-R Channel itself, which can automatically generate all information needed immediately upon ghost saving, and then upload it to our server (also required because the star system, where you get stars for beating ghosts, is actually all calculated and stored on our server).


      Whew. Long post, but hopefully this is helpful and clears some things up.

      Bean hat im CTGP Discord Server das angesprochen aber ein paar der Tester haben nichts draus gelernt.
      Folgendes hat Bean geschrieben "but I shouldn't be asked about things that the author doesn't want to change unless it's game breaking"
      "Really, we shouldn't make hotfixes without an author's express permission." und daraufhin habe ich die Tester nach Nightlife Party gefragt.

      Ich bekam antworten wie: Ja, die Tester haben immer noch das Recht, Strecken abzulehnen, und wenn Nightlife Party die paar Thwomps und Zappers wieder drin hätte, würde man das einsetzen. Ich hab auch gefragt ob WiiLuigi jetzt erlaubt wäre, die Thwomps und Zapper wieder einzufügen, wenn man Beans Worte dabei beachtet; sprich "Dinge über die Strecke ändern, die der Author nicht ändern will" im Bezug auf halt diese Objekte, aber nein laut den Testern sind genau diese 3 Thwomps und 2 Zapper ein Ausschluss-Grund. Wenn die wieder drin sind "wollen wir sie auch nicht im CTGP haben".

      Zach (also der Admin des Discord-Servers) sagt eben auch, er persönlich sieht nichts falsches dran, die alternativ-versionen zu erstellen und ins CTGP zu setzen (auch ohne Author-Erlaubnis!). Also, Nightlife Party; WiiLuigi wurde gezwungen die Objekte zu entfernen, weil die Strecke sonst keine Chance gehabt hätte. Jetzt wird gegenargumentiert "Ja, er hat die Objekte doch selber in version 2.1 entfernt!" - Ja, nicht weil er Bock drauf hatte, sondern weil er musste, wenn die Strecke in CTGP rein sollte. WiiLuigi würde ja gerne die Objekte wieder reinnehmen, aber Zach hat schon jetzt bestimmt, dass die Strecke dann wegen dem Schwierigkeitsgrad, der dadurch erzeugt wird - abgelehnt wird.

      Müssen denn echt alle Strecken jetzt so simpel wie Luigis Piste sein? Thwomps, Zappers, Freezies ... - Anscheinend ist es viel "zu anstrengend" solchen beweglichen Objekten ausweichen zu müssen.

      Diese Tester verstehen einfach GAR NICHTS. Ich kann mir jetzt auch gut vorstellen, dass GCN Sherbet Land abgelehnt oder removed wird.
      Ich bin so wütend. Ich hoffe Bean selbst testet die Strecken bald mit uns mit, wie angekündigt, ansonsten verliere ich alle Hoffnung für CTGP.
      Beispiel: Marble Towers, wurde immer und immer wieder abgelehnt, ich war der einzige der die Strecke mochte! Bis Mr Bean sie dann selbst gesehen und gespielt hat - da hat er sie geaddet.

      Zitat von Queeni: Jeder kann doch nach seiner Fantasie ne Strecke bauen, wie er will, da gibt es doch keine "Vorschriften" die sagen, dass es da eine bestimmte Anzahl an Thwomps oder Freezies die stehen soll geben soll. Die denken sich so einen MÜLL aus

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von SpyKid ()

      Im going to put my 2 cents here:

      First about nightlife party objects, I think i only mentioned it once or twice, and it was never meant to sound like a demand or whatever, merely a suggestion, so im sorry if it came off sounding wrong, because it was never meant to be like that

      Secondly, yes the standards for getting a track into ctgp have gone up a lot recently, but thats because we're at the maximum number of tracks that can be in the pack, and the main issue is the ghost database and time trial leaderboards, every time we update a track (for like hotfixes or whatever) we need to wipe the leaderboards and everyones time trials are gone, so obviously we try to avoid having to update a track several times after its been added, and we would rather just fix all the bugs with it before it is added, so we dont need to hotfix it and wipe the leaderboards in the future

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      Yeah, I don't think they should be making unofficial updates like that without author permission or without talking to the author first. Except in super rare circumstances (e.g. a certain texture on updated Marble Towers was triggering trypophobia in people, thus needing an emergency fix), but GCN Sherbet Land clearly doesn't fall into that.
      Did someone actually (without sarcasm) complained about the texture? Trypophobia is not officially recognized and it seems to be an internet meme. If you start removing all phobias then the next one should be the spider thwomp a few tracks feature due to Arachnophobia, or removing thunder due to Astraphobia and so on. If something exists there is porn I mean a phobia of it.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      And yeah, the standards to get a track in are going up, because it's getting harder to find which tracks to remove now.
      The thing I was talking about was the same port of a track. Lets just say we rate the old one 60/100 and the new one 80/100. But if you change the rule to only include 90/100 rated tracks you will keep the bad one and will ignore the 80/100 rated track.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      The argument for rejecting GCN Mushroom Bridge until the cannon is repaired, is simply from that perspective; if you made a hotfix after it got in to repair those problems, the leaderboards would be killed. So, we're trying to ensure that tracks are correct first time round to reduce the risk of that.
      This kind of defeats the purpose of your original reason you made the CTGPR Channel so updates could roll out fast.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      As you rightly deduced, the ghost system works by hash, but it works by the hash of the whole uncompressed file, and the reason to do it like that is because, according to the rules of the competitive community, doing a professional time trial of a texture hacked (Nintendo) track is not acceptable.
      I still believe that only hashing the KCLs, GOBJ section and Object Routes should be enough since "in the old days" people could do whatever they wanted and the worldrecord would be allowed.

      Also what a coincidence I annoy the CTGPR Tester Team and get 3 Mega takedown notices.

      Hallo zusammen,
      Ich muss als erstes sagen das Ich mit dem was Tock und Wiimm sagte einer Meinung bin.
      Vielleicht liege Ich auch falsch, aber so wie es mir aufgefallen ist kommts mir so vor,
      als würde das CTGP Track Tester Team die Custom Tracks so haben wollen,
      wie ihnen das selber gefällt ohne Rücksicht auf die Authoren oder was andere denken.
      Und genau das halte Ich für Schwachsinn!
      Den jeder Mensch hat einen anderen Geschmack und das auch bei Custom Tracks.
      Ich für mein fall liebe eher Galaxien oder Wasser basierte Tracks,
      und andere wiederum Vulkanische oder Berg basierte.

      Also Ich möchte hier jetzt nicht meine CT für als Gut sprechen oder sonstiges,
      aber an der CT die Ich als letztes herausgebracht habe (Waluigi's Motocross)
      bekomm Ich's halt richtig zu spüren,
      den dort wird wirklich jeder ach so kleine Punkt bemängelt,
      und nein wir reden nicht von dem Technischem sprich KMP und soweiter
      sondern einfach nur vom Design,
      ja genau meine CT wird abgelehnt weil sie nicht dem Design entspricht die manche haben wollen,
      zumindest wurde das als Grund angegeben,
      und da frage Ich mich persönlich,
      warum heißt es dann CTGP Track Tester Team und nicht CTGP Designer Team!?

      Hätte mir jemand etwas über Glitches oder über fehleinstellungen in der KMP
      Oder über sonstiges berichtet,
      wäre das vollkommend in Ordnung für mich gewesen,
      Ich meine Ich möchte jeden zufrieden stellen,
      aber das meine CT wegen dem "Design" gleich eine Schlechte CT ist,
      wobei (und das sage Ich nicht weils meine CT ist) Ich sagen muss das es Deutlich schlechtere CT's im CTGP gibt z.B Final Grounds, Lava Road oder Volcanic Valley,
      aber ist jedem seine Meinung.

      Fakt ist meine Custom Track wurde nicht ins CTGP aufgenommen aufgrund weil 3-6 Leute die Texturen nicht mögen,
      und das finde Ich ist eine Frechheit..!
      Den an der KMP oder an Glitches wurde sich minimum bis garnicht beschwert!
      Und Ich denke als CTGP Track Tester sollte man eher Testen ob die CT reibungslos befahrbar ist und nicht ob da eine Texture Gut aussieht oder nicht, den es gibt immerhin Strecken im CTGP die nur mit Sketchup Texturen texturiert werden, verglitcht sind und trotzdem drinnen sind.

      Fazit, diese Community hat mich in letzter Zeit sehr enttäuscht und Ich werde in Zukunft Custom Tracks nur für meinen Spaß machen,
      klar bin Ich auch zukünftig bereit kritik und vorschläge anzuhören,
      aber wenn jemand meint eine CT ist schlecht nur aufgrund weil ihm für seinen Geschmack das Design nicht gefällt
      Und deswegen nicht ins Pack aufgenommen wird, finde Ich es einfach nur lächerlich.

      Allein schon diese Aussage die Ich Gestern Abend bekam,
      ändere paar Texturen (und mir wurden sogar welche Geschickt und gesagt wie und wo Ich welche hinmachen soll)
      und dann ist die CT Gut.
      Tut mir leid, aber da kann Ich nur den Kopf schütteln.

      ~wiimi

      Tock schrieb:

      Did someone actually (without sarcasm) complained about the texture? Trypophobia is not officially recognized and it seems to be an internet meme. If you start removing all phobias then the next one should be the spider thwomp a few tracks feature due to Arachnophobia, or removing thunder due to Astraphobia and so on. If something exists there is porn I mean a phobia of it.

      Yeah, a few people did. Trypophobia is no meme, it's definitely a thing, and I don't think the people who complained would appreciate you making light of what was legitimately making them feel uncomfortable/disgusted. Just because something is not officially recognised, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If people start approaching us telling us that stone spiders are triggering arachnophobia, then we may well alter that too. As far as I know, there are no tracks with thunder in them.

      Tock schrieb:

      The thing I was talking about was the same port of a track. Lets just say we rate the old one 60/100 and the new one 80/100. But if you change the rule to only include 90/100 rated tracks you will keep the bad one and will ignore the 80/100 rated track.

      Nah, I consider that unlikely. Upgrades to tracks already in CTGP are slightly easier to get in, especially if the changes are dramatic and clearly an improvement. Maybe I should be less stingy about GCN Mushroom Bridge, but it'd be so cool if the cannon were modelled properly.

      Tock schrieb:

      This kind of defeats the purpose of your original reason you made the CTGPR Channel so updates could roll out fast.

      Yes, times have very much changed at this point, the update service is more for completely replacing tracks rather than repairing or updating them. People seem to enjoy that usage of it more.

      Tock schrieb:

      I still believe that only hashing the KCLs, GOBJ section and Object Routes should be enough since "in the old days" people could do whatever they wanted and the worldrecord would be allowed.

      Actually, that policy applied in the REALLY old days, people could texture hack and then set WRs. Then it was forbidden (about 3 years before WFC shutdown) so everyone stopped using them. That rule still applies, so that's how I built the Ghost DB. I would agree that texture hacks genuinely aren't that offensive, but unless you can convince the competitive community at large, I don't think we'll be seeing a change.

      Tock schrieb:

      Also what a coincidence I annoy the CTGPR Tester Team and get 3 Mega takedown notices.

      Actually, I got one too against a CTGP full download just now, so make of that what you will (from info @ sonopress .de). Same guys?

      @wiimi
      Kleiner Trost: ct.wiimm.de/tsel/view?tsel=2&pub#list (ganz unten in der Liste)

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      Ontopic:
      Das neue Intermezzo ist da!


      Es sind jede Menge gute neue Strecken und einige Updates für MKW-Fun dabei. Ich hoffe, es werden sich morgen ein paar Tester einfinden! Vlt kann ich ja mal wieder @SpyKid und @datraptor als Ersatz für Leseratte ködern.

      Das neue Intermezzo ist da.
      * Strecken: download.wiimm.de/intermezzo/mkw-intermezzo-2018-07-31.txt
      * Download: download.wiimm.de/intermezzo/mkw-intermezzo-2018-07-31.7z

      Es sind u.a. die folgenden Cheats enthalten:
      * Mein universeller Unlock-Cheat
      * Meine Item-Cheats für Wiimote+Nunchuck und GC-Controller.

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      Many things said, hope that it help to reconsider some points.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      Now, I admit to being responsible for requesting the Nightlife alcohol changes, simply for the reason that we have young kids playing CTGP.

      Really? It's a glass, where do you see an alcohol problem?

      And what about thwomps, they mash you down (and in real live they would kill you).
      What's about Lightning? It shrinks you. What's about the Pokemon monsters, Bob-omb, Mega Mushroom, Cataquack, Fire objects and so on. All are more harmful than an empty wine glass.

      I don't know any country that has a age rating for wine glasses, but they have for others of the list. So CTGP is in category "glasses" more careful than the other world. Amazing -- tell me if I'm wrong.

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      Jetzt muss ich mich zu der ganzen CTGP Sache auch mal einmischen.

      Also ich gebe den wiimi und Wiimm recht. So, ich habe über dieses CTGP in letzter Zeit viel mitbekommen und mich selber schon aufgeregt und ich kann es gut verstehen, dass dann die Leute keine Lust mehr haben Strecken zu bauen, weil sie wegen Kleinigkeiten nieder gemacht werden. CTs sollen Spaß machen und nicht Diskussionen auslösen. Zum Beispiel sagt einem ein Streckenauthor (in meinem Fall khacker bei Molten Mountainway), dass man viel zu dumm sei, die Strecke richtig zu fahren. Da gab es ja stellen wo man bei manchen Rampen tricken musste, und bei manchen durfte man es nicht ohne gleich von der Strecke zu fliegen, und „wenn man das nicht weiß, ist man halt zu dumm für die CT“.

      Ich frage mich, ob die CTGP Tester auch CT-Maker sind, und haben die schon mal eine CT gebaut? Man sollte mal wissen, wie viel Arbeit das ist. Und wo steht geschrieben, was bei einer CT erlaubt ist und was nicht? Gibt es solche Regeln? Wenn ja, wo stehen sie? Was ich nicht verstehe: Sektgläser sind verboten, weil sie „nicht jugendfrei“ sind, aber Blut-tropfende Wände, Skelette und fliegende Totenschädel sind erlaubt? (Horror Mansion). Da muss man doch auch bedenken, dass das Kinder spielen und diese Elemente den Kindern Angst machen können, finde ich sogar noch viel schlimmer als Alkohol.


      Jetzt kommen wir auf WiiLuigis Strecke zu sprechen. Ich kann mich dran erinnern, dass WiiLuigis Strecken angeblich immer zu wenig Objekte und Deko hatten. Ja, nun hat er das geändert und es ist auch nicht okay! Ich bin zwar kein Pro und nutze sogar Automatik und selbst ich bin die Strecke (Nightlife Party) ohne Probleme gefahren, mir stand da nichts im Weg. Bei Sandcastle Park zum Beispiel gibt es auch Thwomps – sogar noch größere – und niemand beschwert sich. Also mir gefällt die aktuelle Version von Nightlife Party nicht mehr, v2.0 war okay.



      Ich selbst habe auch die Erfahrung mit Comet Starway gemacht. Die Strecke wurde ohne Autor-Erlaubnis mehrmals abgeändert, bis sie „den anderen“ gefallen hat.


      Über Waluigis Motocross: Finde ich toll, dass die jetzt bei Wiimms MKW Fun drin ist. Die haben gesagt das ist zu hügelig? Ist doch eine Cross-Strecke. Wenn ich keine Hügel will, kann ich auch gleich den ganzen Tag nur Baby Park fahren.

      Shadow Woods, mit dieser dämlichen Meinung über die Abkürzung. Da fehlen mir die Worte. Das ist gleich so sinnlos und blöd, die Strecke deswegen auszuschließen. Da weiß ich auch nicht mehr was ich zu sagen soll.




      English translation



      So I agree with wiimi and Wiimm. So, I've heard a lot about this CTGP-debate lately and I've been getting upset hearing about it lately and I can understand why people don't want to build tracks anymore because they're being knocked down because of minor creativity things. CTs are supposed to be fun, not a source of discussion. For example, a track author (in my case khacker, the creator of Molten Mountainway) tells me that I am far too stupid to drive the track correctly. There were places where you had to trick on some ramps, and on some you couldn't do it without flying off the track right away, and, quoting him "if you don't know that, you're just too stupid for the CT".

      I wonder if the CTGP testers are also CT makers, and have they ever built a CT? They need to know how much effort that takes. And where can I read what is forbidden and what is not in a CT? Are there rules like this? If so, where can I find them? What I don't understand: wine glasses are forbidden because they are "not child friendly", but blood-dripping walls, skeletons and flying skulls are allowed? (Horror Mansion). You have to bear in mind that children play and these elements can frighten children, and I think they are even worse than alcohol.

      Now we come to WiiLuigi's track. I remember WiiLuigi's tracks, according to the testers, always had too few objects and decorations. Yes, now he's changed that and it's still not okay! I'm not a pro and even use automatic and even I played the track (Nightlife Party) without any problems, no obstacles were in my way. On Sandcastle Park, for example, there are thwomps - even bigger ones - and nobody complains. So I don't like the current version of Nightlife Party anymore, v2.0 was okay.

      I have also experienced that Comet Starway myself. The track was changed several times without author's permission until it pleased "the others".

      About Waluigis Motocross: I think it's great that it's now coming to Wiimm's MKW Fun. The testers said the CT is too hilly? It's a Motocross. If you don't want hills, you can just play Baby Park all day.

      Shadow Woods, with that stupid thoughts about that shortcut. I don't know what to say. It's just so pointless and stupid to completely reject the track because of it. I don't know what to say anymore.

      Erst 1 Download -- nicht das es wegen der Diskussion übersehen wurde:

      Wiimm schrieb:

      Ontopic:
      Das neue Intermezzo ist da!


      Es sind jede Menge gute neue Strecken und einige Updates für MKW-Fun dabei. Ich hoffe, es werden sich morgen ein paar Tester einfinden! Vlt kann ich ja mal wieder @SpyKid und @datraptor als Ersatz für Leseratte ködern.

      Das neue Intermezzo ist da.
      * Strecken: download.wiimm.de/intermezzo/mkw-intermezzo-2018-07-31.txt
      * Download: download.wiimm.de/intermezzo/mkw-intermezzo-2018-07-31.7z

      Es sind u.a. die folgenden Cheats enthalten:
      * Mein universeller Unlock-Cheat
      * Meine Item-Cheats für Wiimote+Nunchuck und GC-Controller.

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      Wiimm schrieb:

      Many things said, hope that it help to reconsider some points.

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      Now, I admit to being responsible for requesting the Nightlife alcohol changes, simply for the reason that we have young kids playing CTGP.
      Really? It's a glass, where do you see an alcohol problem?

      And what about thwomps, they mash you down (and in real live they would kill you).
      What's about Lightning? It shrinks you. What's about the Pokemon monsters, Bob-omb, Mega Mushroom, Cataquack, Fire objects and so on. All are more harmful than an empty wine glass.

      I don't know any country that has a age rating for wine glasses, but they have for others of the list. So CTGP is in category "glasses" more careful than the other world. Amazing -- tell me if I'm wrong.

      There were more than just wine glasses, pretty sure there were also bottles of alcohol hanging around too. Wine glasses by themselves are, of course, not that offensive. I still don't think they have any place in a Mario game, but hey.

      But no, you are mistaken, I did not take offense against the wine glasses, I took offense against the bottles of alcohol, the "spilled wine" oil patches, and so on. I'm sorry if that seems silly to you, but I still feel it's important given our wide userbase. For the records, I wasn't responsible for asking for any other changes to that track. I'm also aware that some of our other tracks as @BlueSky pointed out, are not exactly kid-friendly either, but we're slowly trying to move in the direction where they are.

      But anyway, with regard to all prior points in the other posts, I have spoken to the CTGP beta testers and I will keep speaking to them until they get the message, that authors have priority. They will hopefully not be making any more "hotfixes" without prior consent, and if they do, I'm sure SpyKid or someone else will let me know, and I'll sort it out, assuming I do not see it myself. They still may suggest things, but I'll make sure that they are exactly that: suggestions, not demands. Without track authors, we wouldn't have tracks, so it's important that people feel like their work is appreciated.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von MrBean35000vr ()

      @Sniki
      @Tock
      Ich habe mir gerade mal N64 BC angeschaut. Die gestern betrachtete Item-Route hat eine PREV-Link auf die Startgerade, und von der Startgerade geht ein NEXT-Link auf die betrachtete Route. Ist daher normal eingebunden und *kein* Sonderfall. Gilt auch für die ITPT-Settings, die auf der Strecke alle identisch sind (1 0)

      Kleine Lehrstunde:
      Wusstet ihr, dass man wkmpt und wkclt auch direkt auf die SZS ansetzen kann, ohne es vorher anzupacken.
      Beispiel: wkmpt cat n64bc.szs >kmp.txt


      NACHTRAG:
      Ich bin alle 32 Wii-Strecken durchgegangen und habe keine einzige ohne mindestens einem PREV und einem NEXT-Link gefunden.

      DS BC von Sniki hat 2 (!) Routen ohne PREV-Link. Daher nicht nur 1 reparieren. Ich denke, beide kann man auch auf den Nachfolger (11) setzen (oder auf sich selbst?), damit Kugelwilli nicht direkt rückwärts gegen die Wand fährt.

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      Wiimm schrieb:

      Ich denke, beide kann man auch auf den Nachfolger (11) setzen (oder auf sich selbst?), damit Kugelwilli nicht direkt rückwärts gegen die Wand fährt.
      Beides (PREV-Link auf sich selbst und auf NEXT) funktioniert. Ich konnte keinen Unterschied feststellen. Ich denke, dass ich den Selbst-Link als Notfall in meinen Tools einbauen werde.

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      Ah habe mich anscheinend auch bei Blätterwald damals versehen. Und zwar ist dort eine Enemy Route 03 ohne PREV link.

      Wiimm schrieb:

      Kleine Lehrstunde:

      Wusstet ihr, dass man wkmpt und wkclt auch direkt auf die SZS ansetzen kann, ohne es vorher anzupacken.
      Beispiel: wkmpt cat n64bc.szs >kmp.txt
      Solche kleinen "Lehrstunden" find ich sehr cool. Die kann es ruhig öfters geben. :P

      SpyKid schrieb:

      Genau wie mit Waluigis Motocross. Ein favorit von mir, aber mehrfach vom CTGP Team abgelehnt. Warum? "sieht optisch aus wie eine Paint-Strecke" "zu hügelig und viele Sprünge, ungerades terrain..." "zu viel Offroad-Abkürzungen"... also, zum zweiten: Hat jemand schon mal eine flache Motocross-Arena im real life gesehen? Manche gründe kann man einfach nicht nachvollziehen. Die strecke ist so vom Author erdacht, und jetzt eine komplett glatte Arena draus zu erzwingen, nur weil man im ctgp-team ist, ist einfach bescheuert und sollte der author auch nicht machen, weils dann eine komplett andere strecke wäre. An was denken die eigentlich wenn die "Motocross" hören?
      Das schallt noch in meinen Ohren nach, da klingelt es ganz heftig aus der anderen Richtung im Wiiki: wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/Waluigi%27s_Motocross#Version_History

      Wie sollen wir dich nun nennen?
      "SpyKid, der tut was er sagt" geht ja nicht mehr.

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