Fair play is playing the game as it is available to everyone. It's not right to call strategies unfair in any game or sport. In public rooms you are not to decide how someone is allowed to play if they are playing legit. A glitch is an advantage but not an unfair one, as everyone can choose to do it or not do it.

Fun is very subjective as well. Everyone can have fun their own way. It is impossible to base rules off this.

I only voice my concerns because I think it's a slippery slope allowing removal of players from games who aren't playing illegally. There are many different types of Wiimmfi-mkw users, not everyone knows or cares about someone else's choice of 'fair and fun racing' and that person has no right to make his opinions about a game the law in a public free setting such as WW. Leaving discretion in rules in general is bad, and even worse when it's spread across different enforcers. The only clear-cut rule that can work and provide the least amount of issues is: Kick only hackers. Competitive rules should stay in competitive formats: Organised rooms, Tournaments, Wars, and etc.

"If you allow insanity there are no boundaries to it."

If you let the moderator decide on his personal opinion there is no boundaries to what he believes is okay. "I was first the whole time and he only won because he used a blue shell in the last lap - thats unfair - kick." "He got a golden shroom on 5 I'm never that lucky - thats unfair - kick."

I think there should be a Blacklist for lapskips and thats it.

The moderators chosen by Wiimm surely aren't that immature. They will only kick/ban for obvious reasons.

Well for over 90% of the users kicking people for shortcuts which aren't lapskips is an immature move.

It's a matter of skill. If you can't do the shortcuts, then what gives you the right to stop others from doing so? Does a power position suddenly make this okay? Are the moderators overstepping their bounds? This is why you do not allow human judgement to enter this. It is a strict, unbiased, simplistic ruleset: If a player does not pass all key checkpoints to complete the lap, it is considered an ultra cut and it is eligible for a kick. This rule is consistent not only for Nintendo tracks, but for all Custom Tracks (which I must remind you, has even more ridiculous shortcuts, and opens a lot of holes in your argument). These shortcuts define the metagame of Mario Kart Wii and they are one of the reasons this game keeps such a huge following. Take away all of those, and you're no better than Mario Kart 8 with an uglier coat of paint.

I'll stick to it: using glitches will result in a punishment. Do that in friend rooms where you are free to do whatever you want (even hacking if your friends agree on it) but leave the WWs alone with these cheap tricks. Use any shortcut that you like which doesn't skip checkpoints or goes through walls/ceilings and you'll be fine. That has nothing to do with defining what's fun for others, as trolls also get kicked, even though they might have fun trolling others. Just play the game, for Christ's sake...

Getting and using certain items in certain positions to win the race is not unfair if you got the items legitimately, this is such a bad example that I almost didn't want to reply to that... in fact, THAT is Mario Kart, a fun racer with items where it's not always the best player who wins the race but sometimes the one with the luckiest items.

Play fair and you won't be punished, simple as that.

which shortcutes and glitches are allowed and which not?

This again shows that you didn't understood what I said. Winning by luck IS unfair. Yes MKWii is a fun racer which IS unfair.


And who are you to decide its fair or unfair? Everyone is able to do the shortcuts and even the Lapskips with a little training so if everyone is able to perform them it IS completely fair.

To take the steam out of this thread lets summarize it:

Lapskips nobody has a problem with being a kick reason:

- Grumble Vulcano Lapskip
- Mushroom Gorge Lapskip
- Coconut Mall Lapskip
- Mario Circuit Lapskip
- Wario's Gold Mine Lapskip
- Rainbow Road online Lapskip
- GCN Peach Beach Lapskip
- DS Desert Hills Lapskip
- Maple Treeway Lapskip

Shortcuts some Moderators have problems with:

- GBA Bowsers Castle 3
- Bowsers Castle
_____________________________________________________________________


The Bowsers Castle one is so tiny that its not even sane to discuss it. 95% of the people wont even try it online and from the other 5% you will get a laugh most of the time because they will fail it 70% of the time. The GBA Bowsers Castle 3 one was already in the Gameboy Advance version and the Key Checkpoints were conveniently set by Nintendo to allow it.

Trolling is also available to do for everyone, but it's still banned. Just because it"s possible doesn't mean you have to do it. Or should we allow trolling aswell? Because I kicked someone who just waited inside the first item box for the whole race and spammed whatever he got out of it, and even drove the track backwards to shoot and attack people from the front.
And winning a race by playing it the way it's meant to be, which is also using items, is not unfair as it's part of the intended gameplay. The items have been added to the game to do exactly what they do, scramble up the final results a little. That's why items are by definition fair. Glitches however have not been added to the game, they're just flaws in it. They're not meant to be in there.

As for the shortcuts: I already said I am fine with the GBA Bowser Castle shortcut as it has been made clear that every vehicle can do it, it doesn't actually make use of any obvious glitch and it's highly demanded by the community. The Wii Bowser Castle jump through the ceiling however is obviously glitched and saves enough time to be considered unfair. I don't know if every vehicle can do that aswell but I also don't care because that'd not really change my opinion on that. Still, discussing that is not necessary because it's almost irrelevant as a shortcut anyway and I doubt you can even really tell if someone used that, even if you're in the same race.

I'm sorry, what? You say you're alright with the BC3 cut yet you are somehow not alright with BCWii, where it saves less time than the former and it meets checkpoint guidelines. Explain.

The world record for Non Glitch BCWii is 2'21"543. The Glitched one is 2'10"532. This is less than 4 seconds per lap and as such you save less than 9% of the track if you manage to succeed.

I agree to the statement about being hardly able to tell for sure someone did it. Pretty much the only chance is if you encounter someone who doesn't fail it and then the Moderator would be seen as someone who only kicks people who actually don't fail the shortcut.

Edit: Torran he pretty much explained it before. He thinks actual glitches (like going through a wall) shouldn't be allowed. I would say thats a fair point even though I have stronger feeling for it being accepted due to its hardness and little time saving.

In my opinion:

Ban: GV, WGM, MG, rWS, CM, RR, MT, rPB, rDH

Don't ban: rBC3, DKS, BC, rDKJP, rGV2, rDKM

People have been going on about the CTGP being a good guideline about glitches in the other thread, so I'll speak a little about what the CTGP actually does.

CTGP contains some counter-glitch codes. There is a huge bug in the game associated with the start line that allows you to skip entire laps, as I'm sure everyone is well aware. The code that handles the start line is, frankly, shocking and a wonder it works at all.

The game performs a special check when you enter a checkpoint after crossing the start line. It basically says, "if the checkpoint you're currently entering is of the valid loaded checkpoints (key checkpoint ranges), and it's not the checkpoint immediately before the start line, assume the player has gone forward. If it is the one immediately before the start line, decrement lap". Where the problem with that lies is that if you appear at any checkpoint that is NOT immediately before the start line (for instance, two before the start line), the game assumes you went forward. It does a bad job of updating the key checkpoint range, too (still says you're in range zero), which is why on some glitch tracks, you must go backwards to the final key checkpoint after performing the glitch to make it work. Going back to the key checkpoint updates the value to that of the final section, and makes the lap count valid, as the game will not count the lap if the key checkpoint value is not correct.

The fix that CTGP does simply alters the way the start line does its check. It causes the start line to check if the checkpoint you're going to is a member of the final checkpoint range and if it is, decrement the lap. This completely eliminates all lap skip shortcuts and forces every racer to drive through all key checkpoints, and was the code that was definitely supposed to have been written, rather than the silly code from above which I can only assume was written by a drunk intern. This, of course, does not stop things like GBA BC3 or Bowser's Castle from working, as they are not start line errors, but it prevents things like Grumble Volcano's drive-around-the-rock shortcut from working. And people tend to like this because it adheres pretty much completely to what the competitive community decided amongst themselves was a good idea.

Anyway, CTGP nonsense aside, my personal opinion (and that of the competitive community, I believe) is that if you trigger all the key checkpoints of a track, it doesn't really matter how you did it, the key checkpoints are there to define the "minimum route" through the track, after all. As long as everyone must drive through them all, I think competition is fair. I think things become dubious when people are able to skip using them, and still get lap counts (start line bugs). So, when it comes to doing kicks regarding glitching, I will be sticking to that policy!

People everyday keep going with one of the most commonly used GV Respawn Glitch, this is extremely annoying as the other players get an advantage. are there not kicks for that?
This is only reason why I never choose GV because of that respawn glitch that sets me back at least 7 positions because everyone does it, completely unfair for sure

If you see a player doing the Grumble Volcano ultra shortcut, report them as if they were a hacker and we'll give them a nice long boot.

I'm not referring to the ultra shortcut, I'm talking about the OTHER glitch. You fall off about 3/4 to the finish and you get placed a long ways apart from where you fell. THAT glitch

That is allowed as it is HIGHLY risky and often fails, also it doesn't save enough time to be banned and also isn't a lap skip.

That's what we decided in a discussion here, I think. I might be wrong, though.

I'm still of the opinion that if the competitive community allows it, then it's probably fine, and they certainly allow the GV respawn error. Again, it doesn't skip any key checkpoints or similar!

aww man... just know it does annoy a lot of people who are actually 100% legit *facepalm* but oh well. It isn't as bad as the ultra shortcut

Hi, is this glitch allowed?



(at 0:34)

That looks like it requires a decent amount of skill to do. Because it doesn't skip laps (like Grumble Volcano), and it covers a relatively short distance, and it's slightly hard to do (so it seems), I'd say that it's probably allowed, but I can't verify this. I'd say it might be because it isn't as stupid and easy as Grumble Volcano, or doesn't skip laps like that and Wario's Gold Mine for example.

The glitch is listed on the Wiimmfi glitch list ( wiiki.wii-homebrew.com/Wiimmfi_(en)/Glitch ) but only with level 3. Only level-1-glitches are forbidden in normal online races for now.

Heheh, definitely not a TAS, he's just very good at what he does.

There's no need to ban such a difficult obscure glitch, I wouldn't say. It literally cuts off one turn. If anyone can pull that nonsense off, they probably deserve to win anyway