CTGP with Dolphin, why not ?

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      CTGP with Dolphin, why not ?

      Hello !

      I'm here to discuss with all of you about the CTGP mod. We are in 2018, 10 years after the release of Mario Kart Wii, the game (and CTGP) is getting older days after days (but is still so active, which is a pleasure to see !). CTGP is the biggest mod here and the only one with custom game modes and an active online community to play with.

      Nowadays most computers and laptops can run Dolphin easily in 60 FPS, in a few years anyone with a Smart Phone will be able to play Wii games. I think now the CTGP Dolphin restriction need to belong to the past and definitely disappear.

      Yes, some people will be able to activate cheats. But every CTGP user has the opportunity to enable the "Ignorance is Bliss" system to block them, and to make a video for banning. So the cheater will be forced to wait 1 more week to restart again to annoy... nobody. He will just be useless in the room because he will not be able to affects other players.

      CTGP on Dolphin will allow more players to come, players with their DISC reader broken or that don't want to use their Wii/don't have a Wii anymore. Playing with games in 4K/1080P is a real pleasure too :) . The online will be even more active. And if the experience is bad for everybody for any reason, MrBean35000vr can still put the security again within an update.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Starlight ()

      If you want CTGP-R in ISO format so bad. Then use a CTGP-R 1.02 ISO. 1.03 can't be converted to a ISO with any current ISO builder. But, there are alternatives to CTGP, and most of them have their own ISO builder.

      Hack Pack, and Wiimm's Mario Kart Fun are 2 good alternatives, they still have 200+ tracks and ISO support. (Hp v5a and MKF 2018-06 are the latest versions.)
      However, the big guns may not be the best option. There are still smaller packs with other CTs that still may not be in HP or MKF if you want to find more obscure CTs.

      Also, if you get banned. You don't just do the activation process again. The first (few) ban(s) aren't so bad. However, if you keep getting banned for the same thing, the time to wait will raise until you get permabanned.

      FancyDolphin schrieb:

      If you want CTGP-R in ISO format so bad. Then use a CTGP-R 1.02 ISO. 1.03 can't be converted to a ISO with any current ISO builder. But, there are alternatives to CTGP, and most of them have their own ISO builder.

      Hack Pack, and Wiimm's Mario Kart Fun are 2 good alternatives, they still have 200+ tracks and ISO support. (Hp v5a and MKF 2018-06 are the latest versions.)
      However, the big guns may not be the best option. There are still smaller packs with other CTs that still may not be in HP or MKF if you want to find more obscure CTs.
      In these packs the online on Wiimmfi is dead. It works, but almost nobody are playing on these so it's very difficult to find oponents.

      We don't need an ISO, the CTGP channel can theorically work in Dolphin and patch directly the official ISO by putting it in "default game". So Dolphin users will always be up-to-date, just like console players.

      FancyDolphin schrieb:

      1. CTGP Channel does not work in Dolphin. If CTGP Channel detects your SD card (sd.raw) then it will just randomly not work.
      2. Especially for HP, Wiimmfi isn't dead. There's a Hack Pack Discord server and one of the channels is for HP matchmaking.
      It was working in the past with JITIL in a specific dolphin revision, but it was slow because of that JITIL. Mrbean35000vr patched CTGPR to block it. CTGPR 1.03 was designed since the beginning to use tricks to block all Dolphin revisions, but he can still remove these "tricks".

      Dolphin is theorically able to run CTGPR Channel 1.03 and to read data from the sd.raw.
      Its not about dolphin being incapable of running ctgp. Bean DOESNT WANT dolphin to work on ctgp for 2 reasons.
      1. No downloaded Isos being used, everybody needs a real game.
      2. No hackers on ctgp.

      If you somehow find a way to go around the current ctgp verification process and get to run it on dolphin (huge props if somebody actually manages to do that) Bean will most likely fix it soon.

      :luigi1:

      Discord: Raptor#3687
      Skype: lars.kruse95

      datraptor schrieb:

      Its not about dolphin being incapable of running ctgp. Bean DOESNT WANT dolphin to work on ctgp for 2 reasons.
      1. No downloaded Isos being used, everybody needs a real game.
      2. No hackers on ctgp.

      If you somehow find a way to go around the current ctgp verification process and get to run it on dolphin (huge props if somebody actually manages to do that) Bean will most likely fix it soon.
      2. There is nowadays no many hackers on Wiimmfi in general + CTGP users can now protect themselves by activating the "Ignorance is Bliss" system. Hackers will be fastly banned (partly because other Dolphin users will record their game window easily :P) and they are going to be very bored to wait 7 days for NAND activation to affect nobody and be ridiculously banned fastly again :D .

      1. About Dolphin it is illegal to use a pirated ISO on it. Everybody should theorically dump their own, they condamn piracy and aren't responsible of it like all emulator/fangame makers. It will be the same for CTGP if MrBean change it's policy. MrBean only distribute a patch which is not illegal at all as long as he doesn't distribute the original MKW copyrighted code.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 5 mal editiert, zuletzt von Starlight ()

      You are right, everybody should dump their own Isos. If i look in random discord servers i see tho that many people are either too lazy or just straight up ask for download links.
      For the hacking issue, yes, Wiimmfi in general doesnt have many hackers.
      However, there hasnt been a single hacker in a CTWW at all since 1.03 (expect the small incident with atlas abusing common szs)

      :luigi1:

      Discord: Raptor#3687
      Skype: lars.kruse95
      Lol, no. Especially nowadays, CTGP is also used as a time trial service that's used to help prove player legitimacy by restricting people to playing on original consoles with no cheats loaded. Ignorance is Bliss wouldn't help our server avoid hacked time trials, and Ignorance is Bliss isn't perfect to begin with anyway! Sure we can detect obvious hacked TTs server-side, but that wouldn't stop TAS times from getting on, and that's simply not okay.

      There's no rule on the Internet anywhere that says trying to block piracy and cheaters 10 years after a game releases is an outdated concept. Especially from the piracy angle, with CTGP at the most popular its ever been, we want to give Nintendo as little reason as possible to target us. If we support Dolphin, they could try to attack us from the angle of "promoting piracy", however false that may be. Given that, and the cheating angle, I have no current plans to add Dolphin support to CTGP and probably never will.

      Friendly reminder of what happened that one time a certain someone DID get CTGP v1.03 running on Dolphin... I wonder who that could be, and I wonder why we patched it out so quickly? :P

      MrBean35000vr schrieb:

      Lol, no. Especially nowadays, CTGP is also used as a time trial service that's used to help prove player legitimacy by restricting people to playing on original consoles with no cheats loaded. Ignorance is Bliss wouldn't help our server avoid hacked time trials, and Ignorance is Bliss isn't perfect to begin with anyway! Sure we can detect obvious hacked TTs server-side, but that wouldn't stop TAS times from getting on, and that's simply not okay.

      There's no rule on the Internet anywhere that says trying to block piracy and cheaters 10 years after a game releases is an outdated concept. Especially from the piracy angle, with CTGP at the most popular its ever been, we want to give Nintendo as little reason as possible to target us. If we support Dolphin, they could try to attack us from the angle of "promoting piracy", however false that may be. Given that, and the cheating angle, I have no current plans to add Dolphin support to CTGP and probably never will.

      Friendly reminder of what happened that one time a certain someone DID get CTGP v1.03 running on Dolphin... I wonder who that could be, and I wonder why we patched it out so quickly? :P
      Good answer, Dolphin can be used to fake Time Trials but maybe you can put a different server that will be used only by dolphin users or you can activate the anti-Dolphin code when someone try to upload it's score (= crash the emulator).

      About online cheating that famous video was an idiot proof-of-concept. Nowadays there is no many cheaters on Wiimmfi in general as i said in a previous message, the online should still remain clean. I made my apologize long time ago to Wiimm and the team about my past and i will never do that kind of big mistakes again. Thanks again for the second chance, i am still a casual player and like this game so much. If it a cheater who read me i recommend you to stop now, before realizing by yourself like me how time-wasting and selfish is this way of playing.

      Finally, you can just tolerate Dolphin rather than allowing it by not mentioning its compatibility anywhere on your site. The community will be here to make tutorials (i will make one :P).

      FancyDolphin schrieb:

      @MrBean35000vr I'm assuming that someone is Kote.
      No, it's the person above you.
      "Friendly reminder of what happened that one time a certain someone DID get CTGP v1.03 running on Dolphin... I wonder who that could be, and I wonder why we patched it out so quickly? "

      "About online cheating that famous video was an idiot proof-of-concept. Nowadays there is no many cheaters on Wiimmfi in general as i said in a previous message, the online should still remain clean. I made my apologize long time ago to Wiimm and the team about my past and i will never do that kind of big mistakes again"
      Please do not PM me. If you PM me without valid reason, I will block you from doing so. Thank you.
      I note that the encouraging piracy argument was completely ignored, and that's probably the most pressing of them all, honestly. Nintendo have made it abundantly clear multiple times just what they think of what I do, with video takedowns and the like :P I would not like it to escalate into anything more than that. So we're playing it safe. So, no ISOs, and no Dolphins!
      Piracy it a relevant topic, but it means not, that you must be advocate for Nintendo without contract. So it doesn't matter, if CTGP is playable with or without original disk. Following your logic, all Windows, Linux and Mac systems must be forbidden, because they allow illegal copying and using of pirated software.

      But I like the exclusion of Dolphin because of other reasons: Dolphin is the cheaters home! And to slow hardware gives the player unfair advantages.

      WIT: Wiimms ISO Tools
      Verwaltet Plain ISO, WDF, WIA, CISO, WBFS, FST: kann Extrahieren, Erstellen, Patchen, Mischen und Überprüfen

      SZS: Wiimms SZS Tools
      Verwaltet SZS-, BRRES-, U8-, BMG-, BREFT-Dateien uvm.



      PN ohne persönlichen Charakter werden ignoriert. Support-Anfragen gehören ins Forum.
      It's not about being an advocate for Nintendo though, it's entirely about playing it safe. It's none of my business how people choose to play their games. I'm just avoiding giving Nintendo ammo for a potential cease and desist notice. And we know they are willing to do that; a highly publicised mod called Pokémon Prism version was due for release in IPS format (another patching format where no copyrighted data is distributed), with the developers saying that you should legally obtain a Pokémon Crystal ROM to patch it. Nintendo hit them with a cease and desist regardless. So apparently it's not enough to say that "you can use a ROM, on your head be it", or in the case of MKW, the ISO would be the equivalent, Nintendo are quite happy to target regardless. By having a disc loader, on the other hand, that utilises Nintendo's own security systems to verify the integrity and legitimacy of the disc, that's one avenue that they cannot pursue if they wish to stop us.

      I doubt that'd stop them if they really wanted to take us out, but the more difficult we make it for them, the better. I couldn't fight a C&D if I got one, I just don't have the money. And so that is why we have made CTGP in this way. We're hoping that Nintendo will ignore us because it's too much of a pain to figure out how to legally attack us.
      If Nintendo were to actually send a C&D about this (which I doubt), they wouldn't care about things like "we don't support that". They'd see like "Hm, last week it didn't work with Dolphin, now they made an update to intentionally make it work with Dolphin", and claiming that you don't support that won't help you.

      I, other than Bean & Chadderz, highly doubt they would actually send a C&D or any other legal stuff in case of CTGP, but I know that US copyright law (and maybe also british copyright law, I don't know anything about british law) is very weird sometimes and they might actually have somewhat of a case if Bean & Chadderz would now make CTGP work in Dolphin. That might be different had they never added the Dolphin lock, or if the Dolphin devs happened to find a way to circumvent that Dolphin lock (as that wouldn't be a deliberate action by Bean & Chadderz).

      Were Bean & Chadderz and CTGP based in Germany, they wouldn't have any legal problems with making game mods work with ISOs / ROMs. MKW Fun never got into any trouble with Nintendo and/or the law. Part of that is certainly caused by the fact that it is much smaller than CTGP and Nintendo would want to concentrate on larger distributions like CTGP, but even if they wanted to, in German law, there is absolutely nothing forbidding a simple binary patcher (and CTGP is just that), unless you explicitly request your users to download a copy of the game from the internet. Merely allowing that to happen is something Nintendo could sue the individual users for, but not the developers.

      That might be different in other countries though.

      Plus, @MrBean35000vr (in case you didn't know), the C&D for Pokemon Prism was about using intellectual property of Nintendo and Pokemon. About a Trademark issue, not about distributing copyrighted content (= code). That same thing could theoretically happen to CTGP right now, and doesn't depend on ISO compatibility.

      Seit Mai 2016 finden auf Wiimmfi regelmäßig Mario-Kart-Wii-Wettbewerbe statt! Klick hier für weitere Informationen.
      Since May 2016, there are Mario Kart competitions / tournaments on Wiimmfi! Click here for more information.


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      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist

      A cease and desist letter has no value : It doesn't mean Nintendo will sue you even if you continue to work on CTGP. You are not making money with your project, the prejudice for Nintendo is null or almost null and can't be calculated easily. Why would they make a lawsuit that would not be profitable for them ?

      "By having a disc loader, on the other hand, that utilises Nintendo's own security systems to verify the integrity and legitimacy of the disc, that's one avenue that they cannot pursue if they wish to stop us."

      == > Dolphin can do it, by putting an ISO file by default it will appear in the Wii menu as it was inserted, like a real Wii. The problem is not how works the CTGP channel, but the specific anti-Dolphin measures. An ISO builder is not a good solution, because the CTGP channel is a very good idea to keep the game easily up-to-date for everyone.

      "But I like the exclusion of Dolphin because of other reasons: Dolphin is the cheaters home! And to slow hardware gives the player unfair advantages."
      ==> Currently there is no many cheaters on Wiimmfi in general, even with possible Dolphin access. About the time cheats it can be auto-kicked or ignored (Ignorance is Bliss + mkw-ana are seeing both the time delay).

      Dolphin represents the future : in 1/2 years any high-end smartphone will be enough to enjoy Mario Kart Wii in 60 FPS anywhere. On Windows/Linux you can play with any gamepad and in 1080p (or more depending on your setup !) which gives a far better rendering.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 18 mal editiert, zuletzt von Starlight ()

      Yeah, I honestly consider it unlikely they'll ever try to chase us with a cease and desist and that if they really wanted to, they'd have many alternate angles to target us, but it doesn't hurt to play it safe, and so we're going to. And while I know that a cease and desist alone has no legal power, Starlight, come on, do you really think I'd ignore it and risk being sued? Dream on. Even if it were entirely a bluff on Nintendo's part, I wouldn't go there.
      First, Nintendo will not take down CTGP (and if they did, people would mirror it), as there is nothing illegal about CTGP.

      Second, blocking a tool mainly used by hackers to disrupt online gameplay isn't "unfair". Remember the times someone found out how to make CTGP run in Dolphin in the past? This was always immediately abused by cheaters ...

      Seit Mai 2016 finden auf Wiimmfi regelmäßig Mario-Kart-Wii-Wettbewerbe statt! Klick hier für weitere Informationen.
      Since May 2016, there are Mario Kart competitions / tournaments on Wiimmfi! Click here for more information.


      My Twitch


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